Saturday, February 02, 2013

Question from Don - Carey descendants

I live in the America's, and easily traced my linage with genetic SNP's to a Carey that mysteriously appeared in Virginia around 1575 (plus or minus 10 years). That is, this line of Carey's is genetically VERY separate from other Carey's (Cary) that arrived on this side of the pond 1500 to 1800.
If I can so easily determine MY tree to a mysterious Carey, that crossed the pond, why can't the activities of Mary Boleyn be similarly sorted out?
Also, what happened to - Henry Carey and Ann Morgan's son: William Carey (one of 16 children)?
My SNP's may help there.
For the doubter's of genetic efficacy, see:


Marilyn R said...

"... why can't the activities of Mary Boleyn be similarly sorted out?"

It's a good question.

I have do idea how the process would work in Mary's case. How would YOU set about it?

kb said...

Hi, The link provided goes to a scientific article about grouping genetically similar groups to continental origin. Is this the link intended?

A couple of questions for you - - What information did you use to track your American-based genealogy? Usually, dates, place of birth, marriage records, baptismal or christening, and death/burial records are used. If this is the data that you used, then it makes sense that you can trace your Carey ancestry back only so far.

In 16th century England, record keeping for this type of information was hit or miss. None of it was required by government or church as a means of tracking people, citizenship, tax records, etc. At the time, there was no law requiring births be registered anywhere - for example. This makes it exceedingly difficult to track down accurate genealogies.

The information I have on William Carey, son of Henry Carey and Anne Morgan Carey is from The History of Parliament; The House of Commons 1558-1603, vol. 1 p. 551; The Memoirs of Robert Carey, (ed) F. H. Mares Appendix II, p. 90; and The Herald and Genealogist, Nichols, John Gough (ed), vol. 4 (1867). The Nichols and the Carey diary are contradictory in places. The working date for his death is 1593. He was a member of Parliament for Morpeth in 1584 and again in 1589 for Northumberland. Nichols says he married Martha Turner daughter of Thomas Turner of Wratting, Suffolk.

I only show 15 children in this family. If you have other information, I would be happy to have it. Sometimes Margaret Carey Hoby is counted as two people because she was also referred to as Mary. But I can find no evidence for a Mary AND a Margaret born to Henry and Anne while I do have evidence for Margaret being called Mary - a common practice then.

If you are working purely on genetics, the other possibility to consider is the West family as they are also Careys via their maternal line. Thomas West, 2nd Baron de la Warre married Anne Knollys, daughter of Sir Francis Knollys and Katherine Carey Knollys. Katherine Carey was the daughter of Mary Boleyn Carey. They had an influential American presence - the state of Delaware for example.

What is an SNP?

Perhaps I missed the intent of your question due to my scientific naivete?

If you would like to continue this discussion via email, please feel free to ask Lara for my email address.

PhD Historian said...

Just a small corrective to KB ... in actuality, the Church DID require the keeping of christening (baptismal), marriage, and burial records throughout and even before the 16th century. The problem lay not with the Church authorities' lack of requirement, but with local parish priests failing to create the records or to maintain them properly. Priests were so negligent in this regard prior to the 1530s that a special injunction was issued in about 1532-34 (cannot remember the exact year) reminding and requiring priests to keep proper records. However, many of the records were kept on paper rather than vellum, low-quality paper being slightly less expensive at the time. The paper was too easily damaged by rodents, water, mold, etc, and often failed to survive. A good example is the records for the Chapel of St Peter ad Vincula within the Tower of London. A transcription was made in the 17th century of the few surviving records from the 16th century, and the transcriber noted explicitly that the older records were on paper and were severely damaged. It is a common misconception that the Church, both pre- and post-Reformation, did not require record-keeping ... one of those myths of history stemming from low-level personnel failing to do their job rather than any high-level authority failing to "make a rule".

kb said...

Thanks PhD Historian!

Mary R said...

I was wondering where you found the information regarding your Carey ancestors who arrived in Virginia circa 1575?

The first permanent English settlement was Jamestown colony, which was founded in 1607. There was the Roanoke settlement, founded in 1585, but they were all killed (presumably) by the Croatan tribe of Native Americans.